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Post by relic on Aug 14, 2008 13:16:38 GMT -4
I'm back from southern Tioga County, the supposed home of the fractured habitat where there has been no oak regeration for 80 years. I'll start with a little history on this particular cut located very close to Leetonia Pa. This clearcut was made in 1985. It encompassed the entire top half of a hollow that was about 1.2 miles wide and dominated by oak. In the fall of 1986, I took a picture of 39 deer feeding at one time in this cut. Remember this date, because it is pertinent to the photos that I will be posting throughout this thread. Half of this cut was unfenced, and a section was fenced. For now, I'll show the unfenced sections because my digital camera went kaput and I had to use a film camera to photograph the fenced in cut that was never succesful in growing much of anything and was burned off 2 years ago. I won't be posting those photos until the film is developed in the lab after I finish the roll. The cut being shown is surrounded by uncut oaks along with laurel, some ash, some cherry and a host of softwoods. It's thick cover, excellent deer habitat that had a good density up until the 2002/2003 massacre. The logging road that I'm showing has been planted in clover and trefoil, and should be drawing any deer that are in the area. As you will see, that's not the case. I'll start with a few pictures of the logging road to show the absence of browsing...... As you can see, there's greenbrier and raspberries growing in this road. If there was a single deer using this area, this vegetation wouldn't be there.
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Post by relic on Aug 14, 2008 13:18:44 GMT -4
I'll post more later on today as I catch up on phone calls.
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Post by relic on Aug 14, 2008 13:23:33 GMT -4
The particular area of the clearcut where this logging road cuts through is about 200 yards wide. The first thing that one will notice is the distinct lack of oak regen anywhere except along the logging road where the sun hits the ground.
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Post by Twowithone on Aug 14, 2008 14:27:50 GMT -4
relic that cut is 22 yrs old. Ill let some other people chime in before I do. Thanks for the pictures and the updates.
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Post by relic on Aug 14, 2008 16:37:43 GMT -4
This logging road has oak in various stages growing all along the entire 2 miles of it. BTW, the last time I was in this area in 1996, there were no ferns.
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Post by relic on Aug 14, 2008 17:07:46 GMT -4
Along with oak, there's plenty of raspberry growth throughout the entire road. Always has been even through the years of so called high deer populations. The Rubus in these photos has been trampled by bear.
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Post by mrlongbeard on Aug 14, 2008 19:35:31 GMT -4
with all the talk of bad habitat talk about that area. are you sure those pi'c weren't touched up.
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Post by relic on Aug 15, 2008 8:15:18 GMT -4
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Post by dougell on Aug 15, 2008 8:55:38 GMT -4
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.Those oak seedlings are very young.No way are they 22 years old.I look at those pictures and see some recent regeneration.Exactly what you'd expect with a time period that coincides with a smaller deer herd.Even the rubus is barely knee high.
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Post by relic on Aug 15, 2008 9:12:45 GMT -4
Of course you are missing the point. That's what we've been trying to tell you ever since you drank the KoolAid. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT! How about this one Doug? Think this one is only recent? ;D
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Post by dougell on Aug 15, 2008 9:21:47 GMT -4
No,that one's older(not 22 years old) but one oak tree doesn't disprove the need to reduce the herd.I see alot more signs of recent regeneration in those pictures than older preferred regeneration.
It's amazing how the rubus is making through the ferns now that there's fewer deer to eat them.
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Post by dougell on Aug 15, 2008 9:25:28 GMT -4
The regeneration on the road is very recent and indicative of what will start to happen once you start to balance the herd with the habitat.Yep,thanks for posting pictures of habitat that looks like it's starting to recover.
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Post by relic on Aug 15, 2008 9:26:16 GMT -4
How's about 2 trees? Or 121 trees? But anyway. Obviously you really are missing the point of this thread. Now listen carefully....this thread is not about herd reduction. It's about oak regeneration through a period of time when the deer population was high and how the oak regeneration responded favorably without the need for fencing during that period of time.
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Post by relic on Aug 15, 2008 9:29:01 GMT -4
Um. Psssst. Hey Doug. C'mere. The rubus on the road thing? It get's mowed every June by volunteers of the NWTF. But don't tell anybody.
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Post by dougell on Aug 15, 2008 14:31:18 GMT -4
That may be true but what about the Rubus on the side of the road?
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