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Post by loggy on Aug 20, 2007 18:29:13 GMT -4
I've been reading around different boards & find that some think those who shoot in-lines are ones who cannot master or do not want to master a flintlock....just looking for an easy way to muzzleload hunt. Totally narrow minded hogwash IMO!!
IMO this is a warped mentality. I have shot flinters for many years & have killed many deer with them here in PA. I know many who are in the same boat! My entrance into the in-line arena merely expands my appreciation of our sport. I primarily hunt in-lines in the Early ML Season plus in the regular firearms season. BTW, I am a staunch supporter of maintaining the PA Late Flintlock Season as is!
It's like saying you are a fly fisherman or just an easy fix/lazy spin/bait fisherman. Division and public perception/produced deterioration of our sports is obviously fed by such unfounded garbage.
What do you all think??
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Post by Buckslayer on Aug 20, 2007 19:06:46 GMT -4
i think its just a matter of choice...i thought aboout flintlocks just not ready to make the investment at this time..
i bow hunt thats primitive enough in my book..in time i will try it out though..[flints]
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Post by rs on Aug 20, 2007 21:42:10 GMT -4
I have had a flinter since around 1970 (before there was a season) my opinion is use what you most enjoy shooting!!!! i have to admit i dont shoot my inline or flinter as much as some but that is also my choice.
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Post by zimmerstutzen on Aug 21, 2007 11:15:17 GMT -4
Well loggy, I am of the opinion that a fair number of in-line shooters won't use a traditional perc or flint because they don't want to learn or consider them (mistakenly) to be too much more complicated. In-lines look substantially like the modern guns they have always used. Gun writers have touted the long range effectiveness of in-lines, totally overlooking that a percussion side lock gun can do, and have done, everything every bit as well. I am all for getting new folks into the sport of muzzleloading. For so many though, it was the easiest, least complicated leap into an extra week of hunting.
I have three in-lines. One is a 28 cal antique, one strictly a target gun with a false muzzle and a cute little .32 cal that looks just like a 22 rimfire rifle.
There's definitely a joy in having a quality firearm. regardless of the type of action and ignition. That goes for in-lines as well.
Some of the in-line hype is "buying a bridge." Bullets for $1.00 a piece, powder pellets for $1.00 a piece, fancy special "centerfire primer" systems. Smokeless powder in some. How much of the in-line manufacturing business is just to sell something more profitable than traditional guns? The new, "gotta have it gizmos" in the race to sell something really old as new. Of course, I still shoot a recurve in archery season, and if I use a cartridge gun to hunt at all, it is probably a 120 yr old Springfield.
Every time a manufacturer comes out with some "new" in-line, I can see that clouds of dust were raised at the US Patent office rooting through old ideas. i predict that soon someone will come out with self contained ammo fastened to the base of the bullet so the powder bullet combination can be loaded with one action. (Oh that's right, that idea was patented in the 1820's)
The encore's, huntsman and other tip ups are just revamped Maynards from the mid 1800's. The Remington Genesis is a copy of the old Pheonix Target rifle action. Those falling block actions were stolen from the early percussion sharps and Hepburn designs. The bolt action percussion and needle fire rifles were first made in the latter 1820's and 1830's.
So yes, to a limited extent, such rifles are old in design.
The fact remains though, that many folks buy them out of convenience and a mistaken idea that a traditional rifle is too complicated.
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Post by mrlongbeard on Aug 21, 2007 18:10:30 GMT -4
just more of the my type of hunting is best and the hell with everybody else. kind of sounds like compound vs crossbows
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Post by zimmerstutzen on Aug 22, 2007 17:54:32 GMT -4
Never said anything about my kind of hunting. Never said in-lines don't have a place in the woods. From years hanging around my buddy's gun shop and working there occasionally to help him out, I've seen it first hand. I said a fair number of folks buy them as the most convenient and least complicated way to get an extra week hunting. They look much like the standard cartridge guns these same boys have hunted with and feel comfortable with. Outdoor writer's hype has folks thinking they are superior to the traditional gun that is difficult to load and keep dry. Simply Fact stating. I am a traditionalist muzzleloader fan first but I have 3 in-lines. They have their place. Didn't say that place wasn't in the woods.
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onager
lodge member
Posts: 244
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Post by onager on Aug 23, 2007 10:33:52 GMT -4
Whew! I saw the post "warped mentality" and was afraid one of you had talked to my wife, family and co-workers. Being a entusiast in history and a hunter. My biggest "fear" is that the blackpowder will get in my lungs and I will have to buy a custom built flintlock and go traditional garb. Instead of my leafy camo and RMC flintlock. That being said,my most common experience with my flinlock at the range. Is comments from other shooters. "I tried a flintlock and it was to much of a pain to get to fire" My guess is that flintlock hunting is going to be alot like hunting with a bow. So much can go wrong at the critical moment. It comes down to how much of a challenge is one willing to put up with in order to enjoy the various seasons for various hunting implements. Would I do a longbow only season? Not sure. But am I in favor of extending hunting opportunities for the longbow? Sure! I am selfish to the point of taking advantage of hunting opportunities IF I can reasonably master the weapon. Most of my co-workers do think I have a warped mentality for wanting to hunt and kill at all. Boy that was a ramble!
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Post by rs on Aug 23, 2007 14:18:27 GMT -4
A warped mentality , maybe but what i do know is that as long as we fight each other we are giveing those that would take it all away more hope! we as blackpowder hunters and bowhunters are the weakest link and as such is where the antis will try to break thru first.!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by dougell on Aug 24, 2007 10:27:52 GMT -4
I assuming this post was directed at my post on another board.I have no problems with inlines myself.I bought one a few years ago because I was compt'd a free muzzleloader hunt in colorado.I ended up not going so I used it here for a few seasons.There's nothing wrong with the weapon itself,just like there's nothing wrong witha crossbow.Are they easier to use them a flintlock?Absolutely.Are they ballistically superior?Nope.Sure there's a few out there that can use smokeless powder but there's a very small percentage of them in the woods.Most deer in Pa are killed at ranges far less than 100 yards so in reality,no deer would no the differance if it was shot with a shockwave that was fired from a new fast twist flintlock or an inline.
People use inlines because they're easier to master just like crossbow users pick them up because they're easier to use. When the early muzzleloader season was first established,it was flintlock only.Once inlines were legalized,participation continued to climb like crazy.Why is that?They always had the choice to pick up a flintlock.People bought them because they wanted anopther chance to harvest a deer and inlines are easier to use.It's as simple as that.
Do I think inlines should be included in the flintlock season?No way.That season was set-up for a special purpose and it has a very limited effect on the resource,which is the same scenario as bow season.Anancements have come along in the archery season and the same has happened with the flintlock season.For years you had to use a patched round ball.Now you can use fast twist barrels with conicals and this year peep sights are legal.However,you still have to deal with the flintlock ignition system just like bowhunters have to deal with drawing in the presence of game without the aid of a scope.Other than the ignition system,there is no practicle differance in the performance of the two at practicle hunting ranges.
I was shocked to see that three of the biggest crossbow supporters(loggy,Tim50 and octagon)wanted to keep hunters from using inlines in flintlock season.Their arguments against the guys that didn't want to see crossbows in archery season are the exact same arguments against the guys than oppose inlines during flintlock season.Hypocracy at it best.Lets see,these called the opponents of crossbows selfish for not wanting crossbows.They accused the opponents of wanting all the deer for themselves.They said we were driving a wedge between hunters.After all everyone should have theright to choose their weapon.it was the hunter that mattered not the weapon they chose to use..There isn't one itsy,bitsy,teeny,weeny differance between the opposition of inlines in the flintlock season and the opposition of crossbows during the regular firearms season.All of the arguments for and against are exactly the same.
Loggy claimed he opposes inlines because of their longer effective range.Take away the scopes,which aren't legal in the late season anyway and you're left with guns that can fire the same bullets and the same charges or at least close to them.The only differance is that flintlocks are harder for most people to master.Are you guys afraid of more competition during your special season?Why would you care if there's an influx of more hunters?That's what you tell us who oppose crossbows.Every extra hunter that participates in a good thing,we were told by you.Some even go as far as saying it will recruit more hunters.
I don't want to get into this argument again.I have nothing against inlines and I have nothing against crossbows or the people that use either.It's just that the issues surrounding their legality are no different.Right now we have an early inline season so guys can use their inlines in a special season.We also allow the use of crossbows during muzzleloader season so no special group is being left out.In my opinion,the traditional primative seasons should all be left alone so there's no change in the length of the seasons.It's every persons choice to pick up either a bow or a flintlocks and spend the time necessary to become proficient with them.Why mess with that and jeopardize the amount of time we get to pursue deer using those methods?
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onager
lodge member
Posts: 244
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Post by onager on Aug 24, 2007 12:12:52 GMT -4
Thank heavens we are all wired a little differently and truth be said all warped to one degree or another. I love a good campfire debate. I appreciate your comments without making any put downs. Although I enjoy some good tongue in cheek smack talk too. If we all were alike in our preferences/attractions then you poor slobs would all be chasing after my wife like a bunch of cavemen :oBecause she IS the most beautiful gal in the world. ;DEven if I can't talk her in to hunting with me
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Post by dougell on Aug 24, 2007 14:00:30 GMT -4
I agree that we're all hypocrits to a certain degree,I despise it when guys take running shots at deer but then I'll also look down on a guy for shooting a grouse on the ground with a shotgun.I guess there's no logic in that.regardless,you can't put people down by calling them selfish for opposing crossbows in archery season and then want to keep inlines out of the special flintlock season for the same reasons.
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Post by batchief909 on Aug 24, 2007 15:20:47 GMT -4
I say hunt with whatever you feel most confident with, just as long as it's legal. I could care less what someone in our group uses,,as long as it's legal, and they can ethically harvest what they shoot at. Face it,,,after the hunt is over, do you sit around and recall the good times had? Or do you all sit around and b!tch about which weapon "so and so" used?? Personally,,I hunt with both, and don't ask permission from anybody.
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Post by rs on Aug 25, 2007 8:31:49 GMT -4
Very well said , if everyone stops trying to change everyones elses personal preferences hunting would be even more enjoyable. if you dont agree with certain regulations work to have them changed , until then abide by the laws that are in place.
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Post by soupe on Sept 6, 2007 15:34:40 GMT -4
Some of the guys I know bought in-lines thinking they could use them in late season. A father and son did this last year just before Christmas. Between the 2 they spent about $1000. The store employee never said anything to them and they claim they told them they were buying them for late season. We were making late season plans and I told them those guns were not usable. Needless to say they were not to happy. I saw a guy last day of late season last year with an in-line. (The only guy I saw) I told him it was illegal and he said I was nuts. He said he hunted the whole season and I was the first person that said anything. It makes me wonder how many guys bought in-lines thinking they could use them late season?
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Post by berkscoflinter1 on Sept 6, 2007 21:49:11 GMT -4
Holy Smokes, Loggy! I guess you figured things were getting a little boring around here. I'd get one of those inlines, but they appear way too complicated for an old guy so I think I'll stick with my flinters. The one huge drawback with the flinter is you have to draw the hammer and set the triggers in the presence of game, and what a challenge that is!
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