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Post by dennyf on Aug 1, 2008 12:09:39 GMT -4
What has the game commission planted on the reclaimed strip mine lands that are now part of their SGL system, or part of the co-operative lands open to public hunting?
If they raise and distribute all those flowering, nut and fruit-bearing trees at their nursery, why don't they also plant them on SGLs?
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Post by crazyhorservn on Aug 1, 2008 12:39:40 GMT -4
Could be DCNR won't allow them to do that. Or maybe the agency hasn't yet gotten permission from DCNR.
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Post by dennyf on Aug 1, 2008 17:43:22 GMT -4
That's an inane response, even for you.
I was under the impression that they pretty much plant the same things on SGLs, that they make available to the public and co-operators.
Because Dave Henry said they're planting 1000 oaks on a particular area, now somehow means that's all they ever plant on SGLs? Interesting conclusion.
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Post by crazyhorservn on Aug 1, 2008 18:49:35 GMT -4
So you can take me to a Game Lands where the PGC has planted 1000 apple trees?
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Post by dennyf on Aug 1, 2008 20:15:25 GMT -4
No idea if they've ever planted 1000 apple trees on any one gamelands. Neither do you, apparently?
What if they'd planted a hundred apple trees and a few hundred other "non-commercial" trees on several gamelands in any one year period? Would that count for something, or would it still be insufficient to still your tongue?
You were once fond of jabberin' about how the PGC was only interested in promoting commercial species on SGLs, yet also went on about how they weren't cutting enough commercial timber on SGLs to suit you.
If the thought of them only worrying about planting commercial species like marketable oak upsets you, why fret about how many they cut in any one year, once the trees have matured?
You either want them to have oaks, or you don't.
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Post by mrlongbeard on Aug 1, 2008 21:08:56 GMT -4
if you want improvement burn so the under growth can regenerate which in turn is the best for wildlife. it works out west why not here. oops forgot no value to big timber so it won't fly.
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Post by dennyf on Aug 1, 2008 21:46:54 GMT -4
No, in Pennsylvania it's more a matter of liability and state law pertaining to burning.
I have read that DCNR has experimented with some controlled burns, but has never received permission to expand the study to larger areas. Since several thousand acres burned along the Tioga/Lycoming line last spring (mostly SF land), I'd expect some useful info ought to come from that, although by accident.
There's even a section on controlled burns for habitat improvement on the PGC habitat pages, if not mistaken. Didn't pay much attention to it, was more interested in the stuff about managing grasses for maximum wildlife benefit.
Got lots of grasses now, used to have mostly goldenrod, briars and other weeds, in the open areas of my camp property. All over-grown former pasture, now spotted with thornapples, real apple trees and some clumps of larger trees like ash, beech and the like. Have over a half acre of maintained grasses in there now, where once were just weeds.
Several years of mowing those areas produced good stands of grasses, got rid of the weeds, no chemicals. Now I just mow some parts, let others grow. Mow those parts the next year, etc. All it took was time, work and lots of gas for the tractor. Now there is also some decent clover in areas that once were just weeds.
Years ago lots of people up in Potter and Tioga used to burn-off weedy banks and other unmowable areas every spring. Coupla years of uncontrolled fires from winds popping up, poor planning, a few fines and now hardly anyone does it now. Fire is great, if you can control it.
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Post by crazyhorservn on Aug 2, 2008 10:16:32 GMT -4
What you've described is nothing but incompetency on the part of DCNR and PGC people who obviously had no clue as to how to conduct a safe burn. Methods of burning are conducted in New Jersey's Wildlife Management Areas, which are the equivalent of our Game Lands all the time. Their people must be better informed as well as better trained.
There's still no excuse for the agency not planting a more diverse number of trees and shrubs when a cut is completed or an exclosure is constructed. Regenerating what is already there is not Habitat Improvement but rather maintaining what is currently in existence and that is a timber managed forest as opposed to a Game & Wildlife forest. With 93% of all Game Land acreage in some form of timber there is no logical reason for it all to be managed for timber as opposed to having a majority of it managed for Game.
Another item for debate is why is not the PGC heavily involved in the American Chestnut Project? One would think that this agency would be very much involved in this project as Pennsylvania was once one of the greatest sources of the wonderful American Chestnut. Wildlife and Game thrive on chestnut which are much more beneficial to them and us than are Oaks.
Right now I believe the main focus of the PGC has to do with GAS as opposed to anything relative to [glow=red,2,300]Habitat Improvement[/glow].
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Post by mrlongbeard on Aug 2, 2008 21:08:40 GMT -4
how do all the other states do it without a problem. all just excuses from the pgc supporters
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Post by dennyf on Aug 8, 2008 13:28:37 GMT -4
If other states make it doable for their wildlife agencies that may wish to do controlled burns for habitat improvements, but PA doesn't allow it...why is it just another excuse?
Because you want it to be viewed as such?
I think DCNR has done a few small, controlled burns, but has never been able to get permission to do them on a larger scale?
At one time, not only was it permissable for most of us to burn brush and leaves, or burn-off dead weeds on unmowable areas in the spring, it was how many people did things on their own properties. Now, most municipalities have made it illegal to burn anything outdoors.
Even the rural twp. my camp is in, made it illegal to burn anything outdoors without a permit. Most still burn their trash anyway, like they've always done. There was a push to make everyone there contract with a trash hauler. Most found it to be too expensive and the idea of setting bags of garbage out that generally were torn-open by feral cats, 'coons and bears, quickly went out of vogue.
Last summer one of my farmer neighbors (who's also a twp. supervisor), torched several acres of windrowed hay up the road from my place, that'd been rained-on one too many times. Filled the hollow with thick smoke that brought many on the run to see WTH was up. One of 'em asked him if he had a permit for that fire. Even his mommy drove over to give him hell. ;o)
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Post by crazyhorservn on Aug 8, 2008 14:01:04 GMT -4
Sounds like a lawless community. Wonder if they obey the Game Laws like they obey the fire regulations?
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Post by dennyf on Aug 8, 2008 15:49:17 GMT -4
Worse. We're comtemplating the group purchase of a 1919A4 Browning, but can't decide whether to get one in semi-auto or blow the budget on a Class III version...or even where to put it for opening day.
I think everyone obeys the regs. Must be why we haven't seen a WCO or DWCO in the valley in several years?
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Post by crazyhorservn on Aug 9, 2008 9:29:46 GMT -4
Don't worry, Rick Shire is well aware of the area.
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Post by dennyf on Aug 9, 2008 12:44:45 GMT -4
Don't worry, Rick Shire is well aware of the area
He must be. He stops by Ackley's several times a year to see how things are going in the area.
Last year, a neighboring farmer found an impressive buck dead, on opening day. No sign of it having been shot, hit by a vehicle, etc, so he called Shire to come get it, hoping they'd do some tests to determine the cause of it's demise. He and other farmers had lost several calves/heifers to no apparent cause last fall, thought there might be something around they didn't know about?
Then he stopped by Ackley's that evening and found out that buck had gone to NJ with some hunters who saw it on the PGC vehicle parked outside, bought the antlers and took the entire deer home. Now that neighbor is on the anti-PGC warpath.
Some of my farmer kin over closer to Middlebury Center aren't too fond of him or Mee. Heard they once raided the annual end of hay season BBQ thrown for the teens that help bring in the hay each summer.
Apparently they had a tip there was more to eat there than the pig that gets roasted, but didn't find any "contraband" meats on the menu, after they gathered some "evidence" for testing?
On the original subject of controlled burns, isn't there now a bill in the House that specifically addresses the ability of DCNR (and perhaps others) to have controlled burns for the purposes of habitat improvements?
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Post by crazyhorservn on Aug 9, 2008 17:55:01 GMT -4
"Then he stopped by Ackley's that evening and found out that buck had gone to NJ with some hunters who saw it on the PGC vehicle parked outside, bought the antlers and took the entire deer home. Now that neighbor is on the anti-PGC warpath."
I know Rick, and I'd say that these are some very serious charges your making implying he sold those antlers. Maybe you should talk to Rick personally. I'm sure your terribly mistaken about him selling anything.
How is it you didn't report this to the PGC in the first place?
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