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Post by gullythumper on Oct 8, 2007 9:46:26 GMT -4
I have been a stout fan of the powerbelts ever since I got back into muzzleloading. After reading so much about sabots, and owning an Omega, I decided to go to the T/C super glide shockwave ammo. I have never been more frustrated and disgusted in my life!!! Accuracy is fair at the best in my gun, and clean-up is horrendous!!! Cripe, half the sabot is melted and left in the barrel, and after only three shots it's nearly impossible to load a bullet. Sure, you guys who swab after every shot will say you don't have that problem, but I'm not into swabbing in the woods. If for any reason I'd need to use a second or third shot I should be able to feel confident in it loading easy and hitting the same point of aim. Mine doesn't, and I hate those sabots!! Going back in today to get powerbelts and get the darn thing set before saturday.
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Post by hbgfish on Oct 8, 2007 15:43:17 GMT -4
gullythumper: I just picked up a TC Triumph on Friday, took it to the range on Saturday and it grouped great at 50yds with the 250 shockwave spire points.
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Post by loggy on Oct 9, 2007 6:28:54 GMT -4
I have been a stout fan of the powerbelts ever since I got back into muzzleloading. After reading so much about sabots, and owning an Omega, I decided to go to the T/C super glide shockwave ammo. I have never been more frustrated and disgusted in my life!!! Accuracy is fair at the best in my gun, and clean-up is horrendous!!! Cripe, half the sabot is melted and left in the barrel, and after only three shots it's nearly impossible to load a bullet. Sure, you guys who swab after every shot will say you don't have that problem, but I'm not into swabbing in the woods. If for any reason I'd need to use a second or third shot I should be able to feel confident in it loading easy and hitting the same point of aim. Mine doesn't, and I hate those sabots!! Going back in today to get powerbelts and get the darn thing set before saturday. Dick, what load are you using with those sabots?? That should never be happenng. I use the 250 TC Shockwave (bonded) in my TC Pro Hunter & never had a problem with loading second o 3rd (w/o) cleaning. If you are shooting in really hot weather...say 80 plus, sabots someimes can blow with a hot load say 100 grs 777 or hotter.
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Post by pastush on Oct 9, 2007 13:28:54 GMT -4
Loggy I have an omega and shoot two 50 gr. pellets of 777 250 gr. shokwave bonded and can cover the group with a 1/2 dollar at 75yards. This combo shoots better than my 06.
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Post by gullythumper on Oct 9, 2007 13:51:27 GMT -4
I'm shooting an Omega with 100gr loose APP. I really am beginning to think it's just those SuperGlide 250's. The plastic is VERY thin. My friend who's here is using the regular shockwaves with the black sabots and doesn't have that problem. I just came in from re-checking it with the 245gr Powerbelts and it's now right on the money again and the fifth shot loaded just as easy as the first and had the same POI. I'll just stick with them since they work for me.
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Post by loggy on Oct 9, 2007 20:16:26 GMT -4
Dick, I like the regular MMP HPH12 sabots which come packed with the regular Shockwaves & the Bonded Shock Waves. If i remember the superglides are similar as the MMP HPH24's designed with a thinner wall to aid loading.. The big difference between Black HPH12 and HPH24 is HPH24 is .002" smaller in loaded diameter. The regular HPH12 is a stronger sabot.
pastush, that my pet load too!!!
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Post by zimmerstutzen on Oct 11, 2007 11:05:03 GMT -4
In the manufacturing process, especially with engineer designed items, there are permissible standard deviations in production runs. As I understand it, the ideal bore for 50 cal sabots and conicals is .504 If you carefully examine 15 guns from the same production run, you will find that each bore varies slightly by a few ten thousandths of an inch, or even by as much as a hundredth of an inch. The difference from barrel to barrel in bore diameter is also found in rifling witdth and depth. In lines are much more suseptible to variances and tolerances than round ball barrels. Many folks say, "each barrel is different." And that is so true. Now keep in mind that some manufacturers have tighter quality controls, but in the end, they are muzzleloaders that do not require the same exact prcision as modern smokeless cartridge guns. As we narrow down from rough accuracy and get closer to fine accuracy, each barrel handles loads, powders and bullets with a difference. What is a tack driver load for one gun, may not work satisfactorily in the next gun off the same production line. Broached rifling varies as the broaches dull with each barrel cut.
In the early days of the trapdoor springfields, govt inspectors wer given instructions as to what standard deviations were permissible. The 45-70 bores were permitted to vary as much as from .455 to .467. Shooting a lead .457 bullet in a permissible inspection passing but oversize .467 barrel would give worse accuracy than a smooth bore slug. By the same example if one in-line muzzle loader barrel is .497 it won't shoot the same loads and bullets with the same accuracy as an identical gun with a .509 bore. They won't load with the same ease, etc.
We expect that better companies will have better controls and tighter standard permissible deviations, but that isn't always the case. In WW2, the Japs were turning out millions of crudely manufactured Arisaka rifles. Coarse turning lathe marks were all over them. But the chromium bores were expected to be within three ten-thousanths of an inch of one another. They concentrated on what made the guns shooters, even if they were ugly as sin. Whether CVA or traditions barrels are generally as accurate as a TC is a matter of quality control and where the individual company places it's emphasis.
For a Hawken style flint rifle, I still think the CVA Mountain rifle was the best production gun made. Certainly not as pretty in fit or finish as a TC, but the CVA larger flint locks were better and more reliable sparkers and the CVA rifling was better matched to traditional round ball shooting than the TC. After all, where does quality in a rifle count, How it looks hanging over the mantle?, or how the targets look down range?
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onager
lodge member
Posts: 244
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Post by onager on Oct 11, 2007 14:16:01 GMT -4
Makes sense. Never saw an Iniut with a skinny blond.
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Post by blackhawk on Oct 12, 2007 9:58:28 GMT -4
I shoot both of those shockwaves ,and never experienced any problems, They drop whitetails like a lightening strike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by gullythumper on Oct 12, 2007 13:35:25 GMT -4
I went back to the Powerbelts and now have great accuracy again. I may try the black sabot bullets after the season, but fo now I'll stick to what works. I killed one deer with my flintlock, two with my Traditions 209E-bolt, and two with my Omega using the powerbelts. Fortunately I have one unopened box of the sabots and can take them back to the dealer for exchange.
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Post by gullythumper on Oct 20, 2007 19:47:24 GMT -4
Guess I have to change that kill number. I took a four point and a doe this morning in Md, fifteen minutes apart. Buck, bullet entered just forward of the RF shoulder and exited out the center of the LF shoulder, and took out the tops of both lungs. Stumbled about 60 yds and dropped. Doe,, broadside through both lungs and again a 60yd run ( almost right at me) and fell dead about 10yds from me. I know now that I'll stick to powerbelts.
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Post by loggy on Oct 22, 2007 7:49:38 GMT -4
Guess I have to change that kill number. I took a four point and a doe this morning in Md, fifteen minutes apart. Buck, bullet entered just forward of the RF shoulder and exited out the center of the LF shoulder, and took out the tops of both lungs. Stumbled about 60 yds and dropped. Doe,, broadside through both lungs and again a 60yd run ( almost right at me) and fell dead about 10yds from me. I know now that I'll stick to powerbelts. Great report gully!! Congrats on your kills! I never had a deer refuse a powerbelt hit!! ;D
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