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Post by mrlongbeard on Jun 27, 2007 17:10:23 GMT -4
with all the need for speed that a lot of people feel they need? whats the difference between 300 fps and 280 fps when the greatest number of shots are taken from 25 yrds and in.
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Post by bfisher on Jun 27, 2007 20:10:18 GMT -4
At 25 yards the difference is negligible. Add another 10 yards and you'll see about 2" more drop with the slower bow.
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Post by mrlongbeard on Jun 27, 2007 21:12:50 GMT -4
2" drop doesn't seem like much to worry about with all these people going crazy over speed. right now i can't tell you how fast my guardian is and i really don't care. i think to many people worry about speed because the manufactures all push the ibo in their adds. ;D
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Post by dougell on Jun 28, 2007 9:04:12 GMT -4
I doubt a guy will kill more deer if he's shooting 300fps vs 280fps,especially if he's limiting his shot distance to less than 30 yards.I'll take all the speed I can get if the bow is quiet,reliable and forgiving.I'm not willing to give any of that up for more speed but more speed does help when you misjudge distance.There is however,a big advantage to shooting a quiet,accuate bow at 280 fpsm vs one that's shooting in the low 200 range.
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Post by bfisher on Jun 28, 2007 11:27:52 GMT -4
I couldn't agree more. Although I admit to being a speed freak I limit it to my target and 3D bows. I still like to get as much as I can out of a hunting setup, but not at the cost of unwanted noise. Besides, at a 27" draw I'm not in the radical speed category. That being said, my bows normally get something between 260 fps and 270 fps for hunting.
Right now I have a Martin Pantera w/ nitrous X cams and my hunting arrows are doing just about 275 fps at 53# (about all I shoot any more). My 3D setup out of this bow does 287 fps; perfect for ASA shooting.
Referring to another thread? Why do I only shoot 53#? Because it's all that's needed and I beat the heck out of my shoulders for too many years being "macho". Also because I can shoot the same speeds with a hard cam at 53# that a smoother cam does at 60# or so. So why draw the peak weight in the first place.
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Post by jeffpahunter on Jun 28, 2007 12:01:36 GMT -4
I agree with most all that was said above and for me personally I demand a balance of speed, quietness and forgiveness. All seven of my bows are shooting in the 260-270 fps range and I'm just happy with that. Could I get them faster, absolutetly,..is it neccessary.....NO !!!! With excess speed TYPICALLY comes increased noise & decreased foregiveness.....the 2 things I don't want as a hunter. At 260-270 fps I can still use one pin set dead on at 26 yds and shoot out to 30 yards without holding over, even a bit more. For 3D I use a 40, 50 & 60 yard pin in addition but hunting shots here in Pa. are typically going to be under 30 yds. In 35 years of bow hunting my longest shot has been 28 yds other than a 42 yard shot years ago taken at a severely wounded Deer to end it's suffering. Now on the other hand despite what some may feel personally, for the most part in the Archery industry "Speed Sells". I upgrade/build about 40-50 Oneida bows per year and one of the first questions most everyone asks is "how much faster will the bow be" ? Last year I did one for a customer from the Pittsburgh area, he wanted it maxed out in poundage and that sucker made it to about 96 lbs of draw weight, ouch !!!! He sent one of his own arrows along with the bow for me to set it up with and his arrow weighed just under 600 grains. I ran it through my chrono and at 96 lbs of draw weight with 80% let off at 30" draw it slung his almost 600 grain arrow at somewhere in the 290 fps range. Pretty impressive given the weight of the arrow. I never did calculate the KE from this combination but it had to be more than enough for an Elephant. You know what, when I called the customer to tell him his bow was finished his first question was how fast is it and when I told him he about went off the deep end on me because it didn't break 300 fps. His only concern was speed. I agree that it's not everything but to MOST people it's a very important determining factor. Now in my opinion it's also a psychological thing and "crutch" with many. I've seen people at my shop who just knew how fast their bow was shooting just by watching it with their eye even tho they had never chrono'd their bow. Many of these guys were good shots, could hold nice tight groups out to 30 yards or even more but more than once I've seen people like this just devastated .. ....and going into almost a panic after we chrono'd their bow and found that their bow was TRULY shooting a good bit slower than they really thought it was. It was a mental thing and as long as they thought or others told them their bow was fast they were happy as could be. The minute the truth came out they wanted to know how we could speed it up ??... I have a great friend whom is the sales manager for Copper John in NY. He is very "up to speed" with the latest & greatest and what is "selling" in the archery industry as their sales depend on this. More than once in conversation he has commented that if they could honestly claim that their sites, rests and releases increased speeds that their sales would likely double. Again speed sells. Another example is the Whisker Biscuit rest. I use them and love them for many reasons, some don't and that's fine, what works for one doesn't always for another. After extensive testing I've proved that the most speed a Whisker Biscuit will cost you is 3-4 fps but yet I still hear people say..."nope, can't afford to loose that much speed... 4 fps isn't noticeable regardless what distance the shot is. Creep forward on your shot just an 1/8" and you'll loose that much speed or more. How many times have you heard someone complain that a certain catalog doesn't list the bows speed's and they don't like that. Again....a psychological thing that the Archery industry has installed in many people's minds. Just my .02,..sorry for the rant,..I'll climb down off my soap box now..
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Post by dougell on Jun 28, 2007 15:37:48 GMT -4
Very good points from your soapbox.I try to limit my shots to 30 yards,although I have killed a number of deer around 35 yards.I use a rangefinder to make a 30 yard circle around my stand and I'm confident any deer that offers me a shot in that circle will die.All I want is enough speed that I can use 1 pin up to 32 yards(I give myself a 2 yard margin of error)
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Post by mrlongbeard on Jun 28, 2007 16:17:37 GMT -4
really a pleasure talking with somebody who knows what their saying jeff. unlike some people who whine every time somebody doesn't see things their way.i won't disagree with people who want all that speed i just tink if they put more time into tuning and practice they would be better off.noticed you've been hunting over 35 yrs same here i think these young kids don't get it. if you look at what they talk about , losing speed over a peep sight, string silencers, etc etc. if these things make you a better shot forget the speed go for a better setup.
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Post by jimpic on Jun 28, 2007 20:53:08 GMT -4
Speed was never a concern with me.I'm shooting recurves and longbows(low-mid 50#) that are about 180-185fps--that's with a 9 to 11gr/lb arrow. If I shot a 5gr/lb arrow,I'd definitely be over 200fps.I could care less about that.I do know what a 545gr arrow will do to an animal,though.IMO,speed-as well as KE-are way over-rated
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Post by pacaveli80 on Jun 28, 2007 23:24:31 GMT -4
I doubt a guy will kill more deer if he's shooting 300fps vs 280fps,especially if he's limiting his shot distance to less than 30 yards.I'll take all the speed I can get if the bow is quiet,reliable and forgiving.I'm not willing to give any of that up for more speed but more speed does help when you misjudge distance.There is however,a big advantage to shooting a quiet,accuate bow at 280 fpsm vs one that's shooting in the low 200 range. Took the words right out my mouth!!
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Post by jeffpahunter on Jun 29, 2007 8:06:20 GMT -4
You guys are right on. No difference between a dead animal from a 180 fps arrow or a 300 fps arrow, dead is dead and a miss is a miss regardless of how you cut it. What SOME fail to acknowledge is that for the most part the Archery industry and "consumer" went nuts on the speed craze at precisely the same time 3D shoots became the big thing... ....and yes speed bows do have a place in 3D shoots. Take a target at an UNKNOWN distance (this is the key thing here) and then speed and a flat trajectory becomes more important. I've built many exclusive 3D bows and in these cases speed is a top priority....but these bows were exclusively used for competition 3D shoots. Takes these same bows and try to get a broad head to fly and group from them .... .... yea right. When I'm competing to win trophies at shoots where range finders aren't allowed and the targets are at longer unknown distances then I want the fastest bow I can get my hands on. Precisely why over draws became so popular again at the same time 3D shooting became popular. Speed helps scores....on foam targets but not necessarily on live targets. Don't get me wrong, speed can help on live targets but it covers for "operator error" such as the inability to estimate yardage etc. Most serious responsible hunters set their gear up precisely, practice, scout and pick their stand sites very carefully.....so why not take the time to measure distances to nearby landmarks etc. for reference should a shot present itself. Use a range finder or pace off distances before the season, all this goes into making a person a better Archery hunter. If I blow a shot it's not the bows fault for shooting to slow, it's MY fault either for the poor shot execution or misjudging the distance. Over the years I've seen some tremendous trick shooting. Byron Ferguson shooting a variety of trick shots, Stacey Grosscup shooting aspirin's out of the air. You know what,...every trick shooter I ever saw was shooting a long bow....certainly nowhere near as fast as today's modern compound bows. Hmmmm.....must mean something. Sure does..means they know their equipment and it's capabilities intimately and their bow is an extension of their arm when it's in their hands. How does this come about...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and more PRACTICE....
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Post by mrlongbeard on Jun 29, 2007 12:04:59 GMT -4
with just about every bow out there sooting quite or you can make it that way the speed issuse is pretty much dead. at 240 fps or 300 fps if you know your bow at 20-30 yrds it's a dead deer.
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