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Post by skwirl on Dec 11, 2007 19:48:38 GMT -4
I like the Whisker biscuits,is it true they scrub arrow speed my buddy prefers a fixed rest,what is their benefit and yet another friend prefers drop away what are your thoughts
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Post by jeffpahunter on Dec 11, 2007 21:04:13 GMT -4
All are good and have their purpose. I suppose mostly personal preference dependent on the shooters intentions, to each his own. In over 30 years of Archery I've shot many and most style rest's and each pretty much has it's pro's & con's. As far as the speed lose when using a WB. As a Staff Shooter for CAP and actually being very good friends with one of the original creator's of the WB and owner of the Company I have done extensive testing and I can tell you that with feathers the speed lose is -2/3 fps and with vanes it's about 3/4 fps. Not really much to worry about in my opinion. Many people "claim" that the WB isn't as accurate as a "none containment" style rest where there is no fletch contact. To those people I say "bull, show them this picture shot from 30 yds and then say ...... "bring it on"....
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Post by dougell on Dec 12, 2007 10:54:52 GMT -4
I tried a WB abut three or four years about when they were all black and stiff.I chronied a new bow at the shop and the actual loss of speed was about 8 fps with 4 inch flex fletch vanes.I imagine the new brown wb doesn't impact speed as much.I used the rest for most of the summer and ended up putting the trophy taker back on.At least in my mind,I shot much better with a dropaway.Still, for something I thought would be a scam,it worked out alot better than I expected.In my experience,I prefer a dropaway over anything else but the WB is a close second.The old prong rests should just be tossed in the trash.There's much better choices out there today.
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Post by bfisher on Dec 12, 2007 12:27:18 GMT -4
Both guys are correct. The speed loss anymore, withy the softer bristales isn't as much as the older version. Certainly not enough to deter one from using it for hunting.
As far as accuracy is concerned? Well, no matter what bow you shoot, what rest or other accessories you use, accuracy is most highly dependent on the ability of the shooter and/or his ability to tune his equipment. Both play a part. The containments rests are no more inaccurate than any other in and of themselves. But we all know that if a bow moves during the shot then the arrow can go astray. This can be magnified with a containment rest due to it's being held in place. With other types of rests the arrow can "float" a bit and not be affected as much by the bow. It's not a bad thing if you consider that you have to be more concerned with your "follow through". You have to keep aiming the bow till the arrow is gone. If you can do this then accuracy can be very acceptable with containment rests.
So, in essence there is very little difference to be seen in any bows or their components, per se. The main difference in accuracy is almost always in the ability of the shooter. Work on bettering your form and whatever equipment you choose should work just fine.
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Post by bfisher on Dec 12, 2007 12:29:42 GMT -4
Not to hijack, but Jeff, don't you think it's about time to retire that deer? Or at leat remove the drag rope from him. LOL
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Post by XMan on Dec 12, 2007 14:50:42 GMT -4
I've used a lot of rest that are on the market. Being a tech a Gander Mt I fletched a lot of arrows. Not knocking the WB in any way cause it's an excellent rest. I found when I asked my customers which rests they were using. 95% stated they were using the WB. They'll play havoc with your vanes. I shoot the Brite Sight Tuner rest ,(a prong rest), on my hunting bow. I have excellent arrow flight with field points and broadheads. I wouldn't give up on them. If you've taken the time to tune your bow correctly, it doesn't matter which rest you have on your bow. A lot of the problems you see it's not because of the rest. It's because of your shooting form. Hand torque can give you bad arrow flight. You'd be suprised if you have good form how your arrow flight will change. I've paper tuned hundreds and hundreds of bows over the years. I can paper tune a bow for a customer and shoot perfect bullet holes. Customer comes in and shoots the same bow and have left and right tears. Different bodies have different form.
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Post by XMan on Dec 12, 2007 14:53:39 GMT -4
By the way JeffPAHunter good shooting!!!!
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Post by dougell on Dec 12, 2007 15:07:24 GMT -4
I think he needs new arrows not a new target. Good points by both Bob and Xman.The WB is a great rest but it does magnify flaws in form because the arrow is in contact with the rest the entire time.That may not be an issue when you're shooting in your backyard but it can be an issue when shooting from odd angles in the field.Good discussion.
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Post by cmreed on Dec 12, 2007 15:13:39 GMT -4
That is also true dougell good piont. This all comes back to proper form. When you are in a tree alot of people tend to bend there arm and not at the waist putting torqe on there bow. IMO it all comes down to practice practice practice and know your equipment.
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Post by bfisher on Dec 12, 2007 18:07:40 GMT -4
I think he needs new arrows not a new target. Good points by both Bob and Xman.The WB is a great rest but it does magnify flaws in form because the arrow is in contact with the rest the entire time.That may not be an issue when you're shooting in your backyard but it can be an issue when shooting from odd angles in the field.Good discussion. Jeff only needs two new arrows. The one in that back is still good. Besides, if he walk the walk like talks the talk he should only need one anyway. Sorry Jeff. I had to do that.
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Post by jeffpahunter on Dec 12, 2007 19:03:16 GMT -4
Not to hijack, but Jeff, don't you think it's about time to retire that deer? Or at leat remove the drag rope from him. LOL That's the only way I can get a deer.... ......the old ..."got em tied to the tree" saying...I just took it literally... That target has gone to it's happy range in the sky. Expandable spray foam only patched the vitals so many times... It kept falling over thus it being tied to the tree.
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Post by jeffpahunter on Dec 12, 2007 19:26:45 GMT -4
Real good points by all. No doubt or argument here that by inherit design a full containment rest has no choice but to be somewhat less forgiving. Any rest that is making contact with the shaft or fletching is dependent upon proper form and follow through as others have stated. With my bow business I also set up and help tune many bows and I see the same thing Xman reports. I can shoot perfect bullet holes and stack arrows with a bow but due to differences in form, shooting style and maybe even body features that impact the bows set up the shooter has problems...until it is tuned precisely for them,..this is the key. I do much bow work for people in other states via mail shipment and I always explain to them that while I can set their bow up and tune it so far they may have to tweak it slightly to fit their style, form and/or body and facial features. The bow needs to fit the shooter precisely. Personally I feel a good quality prong rest WHEN SET UP PROPERLY is almost as good as a drop away rest as they should operate about the same way. They may have a fault in the potential for the arrow to fall off at a critical time but any rest that is not a containment rest has that possibility. Where may people make a mistake in the set up of a prong style rest is in the upward spring pressure/tension. There should be just enough pressure so that at rest the full weight of the arrow causes the rest to drop fully and just about as you reach full draw the rest should gently rise to it's proper position, just enough spring pressure to barely support the tip of the arrow shaft,....sound like a drop away rest yet.... Set up like this your prong rest works almost identical to a drop away rest. The minute the arrow is released and begins to oscillate the prong rest having minimal spring pressure will allow the prongs to respond downward and the shaft will clear the rest before the prongs can slowly return to where they would contact the shaft. You may not notice this being an issue when shooting field tips but with excessive spring tension/pressure the minute you change to broad heads flight problems materialize. Over the years I've tuned many bows for people who were frustrated/disgusted with a prong rest and not being able to group broad heads and in every case I've found they had way to much tension on the prong's. Reduce and adjust this pressure as I described above and presto..problem solved. When you think about it really there's not much difference between a prong rest properly set up this way and a drop away rest...
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Post by dougell on Dec 13, 2007 0:19:00 GMT -4
I believe there's two distict advantages that a dropaway has over a prongrest.First and foremost is containment.I've neverhad an arow fall off of a dropaway.Second and just as important,I can put an agressive helical on carbon arrows without having to worry about fletch contact.A prong rest is fine for a target bow but a dropaway really shines on a fast hunting bow.I'm not fan of mechanical broadheads,having used them extensively for several years.I truly believe that mechanicals came on strong when more archers started using carbon arrows on prong rests and shooting higher speeds.Fletch contact and not having enough spin on the arrow is a big reason many hunters can't get broadheads to tune.I shoot right at 300 fps and get excellent broadhead flight from severaldifferent fixed blade heads.
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Post by bfisher on Dec 13, 2007 13:21:58 GMT -4
Dougell,
I agree with you to a point. The one thing I would disagree on is that the AVERAGE bowhunter that can't get broadheads to tune is because they have no idea how to tune and often don't even know that there is such a thing as tuning.
I do have to admit that education has gotten better over the years and more people are aware of such things. Those who shoot often are certainly aware, but many still haven't figured it out.
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Post by dougell on Dec 13, 2007 19:07:10 GMT -4
Agreed.
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