|
Post by boxie30 on Jul 20, 2008 13:59:45 GMT -4
first off i'm shooting the PSE firestorm lite NRG at 60lbs with 80% let-off...29 in arrow with 100 gr wasp jackhammers and 2.5 quickspins(but looking at the blazers )
The info I need is the gpi I'd need to shoot to use just one pin to 30 yrds this may not be possible...as for right now I'm gapping my pins to shoot 25/30 yrds, because my pins are to close to fit one between them...
And if I go to the lowest gpi That i can will this affect penetration at 20 to 30 yrd ?
|
|
|
Post by whitetail101 on Jul 20, 2008 19:09:21 GMT -4
The Firestormlite is giving you only 54 KE(approx) based on the info you provided.
I would not suggest going any lighter than what you have now(358 grains).
Also the Firestorm speed is too slow for one pins accurracy out to 30 yds. You could sight in for 25 yds with the first pin, but you would have to be spot on on your yardage judgement.
I have two suggestions. 1 = buy a current model PSE bow and you will then be able to sight in one pin out to 40 yds(basically this so called one pin stuff is pretty much splitting pins without the pins) and have more available KE(your are kind of light for whitetail hunting(definitly are for bear hunting) with that setup you have now). 2 = Sight in your current setup and practice splitting pins at the inbetween distances.
good luck
|
|
|
Post by mrlongbeard on Jul 20, 2008 22:21:33 GMT -4
try a pick a middle of the road arrow for your bow. speed isn't everything. but like todd said if you want to do this you are going to have to up grade your bow. the blazer vanes are great give them a try
|
|
|
Post by boxie30 on Jul 21, 2008 8:04:01 GMT -4
I'm alittle confused you guys say I need to upgrade my bow but with 54 ft lbs of KE if this is true according to eastons recommendations chart for KE
25 ft lbs...............small game 25-41 ft lbs..........medium game (deer,antelope,etc) 42-65 ft lbs..........large game (elk,bear,wild boar,etc.) 65-above.............toughest game (cape buffalo,Grizzly,etc.)
54 ft lbs according to easton puts me in the middle of the large game chart....the bow is only 2 yrs old and the first year I had it I killed the buck thats my avatar ...at 18 yrds I had no penetration problem.....
I'm not looking for alot of speed I guess my question is whats the lowest weight arrow (bare shaft) I could use with out loss of KE...that would possibly help out with my pin situation....
like i said it may not be possible and I've been shooting this bow for two years gapping the pins for a 25 yrd shot....I figured It would be nice to just have the one pin so all I'd have to worry about is the deer is within 30 yrds.....
|
|
|
Post by whitetail101 on Jul 21, 2008 8:28:18 GMT -4
Boxie30 - yes 54 lbs KE is good enough for whitetail, however the Easton chart is a little off on thier minimums.
From my experiences in archery hunting(25 years worth) anything less than 60 lbs KE is asking for trouble on anything bigger than a whitetail and even some of the larger whitetails out there today.
Again I would not go any lighter in arrow weight than you are now. If you are set on keeping the same bow, then I advise practicing diligently at splitting pins, go as far as to attend a local 3D shoot to get the needed practice.
good luck
|
|
|
Post by cmreed on Jul 21, 2008 9:05:55 GMT -4
Boxie30 Not recomended for hunting but to answer your question about GPI you souldn't go any lighter than 5 GPP. Again like whitetail said I wouldn't go any lighter then you are for a hunting set up and you have plenty of KE and 54. The 1 pin mith is just that. The reason I say this is because I shot open class for 12 years, I shot a 4 power Apex scope surelock sight bar and every singal shot you must adjust for. Now I must say there are guys that shoot 1 pin set ups but don't let them tell you they are always holding dead on from 0 the 30 yards because it isn't happening. Good example and I made alot of money on this is go up to a target and stand about 5 yards away and try and put your 1 pin say your 20 on it where do you think you will shoot? Hopefully you said very high. Almost every bow you will have to hold that shoot with for 42-46 yards and you will X it every time. I kn ow hunting set ups are different from 3-d setups atleast mine was because 3-D you need that little X ring all the time where hunting you just need the vital however I still treat my hunting setup with the same respect as far as acreacy because we owe that to the animal.
|
|
|
Post by bfisher on Jul 21, 2008 10:37:25 GMT -4
The Firestormlite is giving you only 54 KE(approx) based on the info you provided. I would not suggest going any lighter than what you have now(358 grains). Also the Firestorm speed is too slow for one pins accurracy out to 30 yds. You could sight in for 25 yds with the first pin, but you would have to be spot on on your yardage judgement. I have two suggestions. 1 = buy a current model PSE bow and you will then be able to sight in one pin out to 40 yds(basically this so called one pin stuff is pretty much splitting pins without the pins) and have more available KE(your are kind of light for whitetail hunting(definitly are for bear hunting) with that setup you have now). 2 = Sight in your current setup and practice splitting pins at the inbetween distances. good luck First off let me say that I have a few problems with this. And I'm not questioning anybody's experience here. We all have a lot of it, but differ on opinions. My own archery and bowhunting career spans 35+ years. Whitetail, to determine KE you have to know complete arrow weight and speed of that arrow. How did you determine KE with just the info provided so far. Or did I miss an earlier post? Secondly, I will highly dipute the KE requirements stated here by a few. Sure, a lot of KE is nice to have, but for whitetail it's just not necessary. Because I've never really shot heavy draw weights my setups do not even give me 50# of KE, and I very rarely do not get a complete pass through on deer. Last three deer I shot I was using a setup that produced 39# of KE and the arrow passed through like a hot knife through butter. The only problem with stating that he should have more KE is that to do so he may think he needs to crank up the poundage of the bow. In doing so he may go beyond what he can handle accurately so the added KE would be a waste if the shots are misses or poorly placed. Granted, I agree that going to a lighter arrow might not be the best, but what is he shooting now? For hunting distances here in Pa. he probably has enough speed already to be able to set a single pin for 25 yards and shoot anything inside 30 yards with a mid-body hold. I've found this to be the case with bows shooting about 260 fps and a fairly normal weight arrow. OK, I'll leave for now and await your replies.
|
|
|
Post by whitetail101 on Jul 21, 2008 13:29:29 GMT -4
[/quote] First off let me say that I have a few problems with this. And I'm not questioning anybody's experience here. We all have a lot of it, but differ on opinions. My own archery and bowhunting career spans 35+ years. Whitetail, to determine KE you have to know complete arrow weight and speed of that arrow. How did you determine KE with just the info provided so far. Or did I miss an earlier post? He provided enough information that using my archery software I came up with those numbers. When using this type of software calculations can be made using less information than using those plug in formulas. I currently use On Target2 for this Secondly, I will highly dipute the KE requirements stated here by a few. Sure, a lot of KE is nice to have, but for whitetail it's just not necessary. Because I've never really shot heavy draw weights my setups do not even give me 50# of KE, and I very rarely do not get a complete pass through on deer. Last three deer I shot I was using a setup that produced 39# of KE and the arrow passed through like a hot knife through butter. The only problem with stating that he should have more KE is that to do so he may think he needs to crank up the poundage of the bow. In doing so he may go beyond what he can handle accurately so the added KE would be a waste if the shots are misses or poorly placed. Granted, I agree that going to a lighter arrow might not be the best, but what is he shooting now? For hunting distances here in Pa. he probably has enough speed already to be able to set a single pin for 25 yards and shoot anything inside 30 yards with a mid-body hold. I've found this to be the case with bows shooting about 260 fps and a fairly normal weight arrow. OK, I'll leave for now and await your replies. First off he is fine yes, as I stated earlier for hunting whitetails, but if he decides to move up to bears or even elk, he is inviting trouble with that setup - especially if using a mech broadhead(I believe the wasp jackhammer is one such broadhead ). I have seen and been with archers who have used setups with KE less than 60 and shot good sized deer using mechanical broadheads and even fixed blades, and we never found them or the arrow. All in all the amount of KE you have is your choice, but I will stick with my recommendation of no less than 60 KE[/quote]
|
|
|
Post by cmreed on Jul 21, 2008 14:18:35 GMT -4
He is fine for whitetails or anything else! I went on and archery hunt to main 2 years ago and there was a 12 year old and a 14 year old set of brothers who both shot bear with perfect pass threws. The 12 year old shot an old golden eagle formula 3-D at a wopping 46 pounds and about a 420 grain arrow with 80gr slick tricks. His bear weighed 242 and went about 35 yards. His brother also shot the basic same set up and had the same reaults. It all comes down to the same old thing and that is SHOT PLACEMENT. You guys know as well as I do that back 20-25 years ago they where killing the same exclusive whitetail and other big game as we do today with no problems. My first deer was a 6 point at age 12. I shot that with a 35 pound bear bow and yes perfect pass threw. I think that sometimes we( and I am bad for it also) get to wraped up into all the propaganda and think we need to do what all the so called pro,s do . You practice, make a good shot into the vidals at a comfortable range for your and you will be sucessful no matter what you shoot.
|
|
|
Post by boxie30 on Jul 21, 2008 16:32:27 GMT -4
This set up is for whitetail hunting... I have an f-4 express that shoots around 70 lbs ( I use as my back up)that I could use if I decided to bear hunt or elk hunt even tho I think my current set up with proper placement would be fine.....
I understand everyone has a different opinion and thats why I presented the question cause the pro shop I go to It's his way and no other way and it seems its always the most expensive item in what ever category......
I'm thinking of getting new arrows and looking at many different ones and they all differ in gpi....
Maxima hunter..........8.0 cabalas stalker........8.4 easton st epic.........9.3 (bare shaft 8.6) beman ics................8.3 gold tip xt................8.2
now I understand that broad heads and fletching,nocks, and inserts are part of the equation......say I'd use my 100gr jackhammers the maxima hunters will be 17.4 gpi lighter than the epics (if my maths right)..so would one assume the maximas would shot a flatter trajectory which in turn would help my gapping issue...... with out knowing the speed of my bow how much KE would I be loosing with the lighter of the two ?? or is it not enough to worry about........
|
|
|
Post by jeffpahunter on Jul 21, 2008 18:28:05 GMT -4
If I knew exact arrow weight(s) and speed(s) we're talking here I could tell you precisely what affect it will have on KE.
I picked some hypothetical #'s out of the air but this may help show what changing arrow weight does to KE. Of course as you reduce arrow weight speed increases provided this is the only variable changed. I have no idea what speeds your bow shoots but my #'s aren't extremely far off representing how much speed decreases as arrow weight increases from most bows on an approximate figure, some bows will be +/- my figures.
Arrow Weight............Speed..............KE ...350 grains..............270 fps........57 ft lbs ...400 gr.....................260 fps.......60 ft lbs ...450 gr.....................250 fps.......62 ft lbs ...500 gr.....................240 fps.......64 ft lbs
Quite a few years ago when I transitioned from Aluminum to Carbon arrows my primary goal was exactly what your asking for....one pin sighting out to 30 yds. I found exactly what bfisher mentioned. Any arrow that will shoot from a bow at 260 fps or above should allow for one pin sighting.
All of my bows shoot my 380 gr arrows in the upper 260's to low 270's and I use 1 pin set dead on at about 26 yds and at 30 I'm a touch low and at 20 just a touch high. Previously I was shooting 400 gr. arrows from these same bows in the low to mid 260's and the same site set up worked just fine.
As the others have mentioned, most all the KE's that have been mentioned will cleanly kill a Deer with proper shot placement. The one thing that caught my eye immediately about your set up and hasn't left my mind is the fact that you are shooting mechanical broad heads which as we all know take a certain amount of KE to open upon impact so this being said I personally would be very cautious about lowering KE to much. But that's just my opinion, again without your current exact total arrow weight and speed I have no idea what KE energy you are shooting so you may in fact have room to reduce some.
|
|