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Post by nytlytbw on Feb 10, 2008 16:10:19 GMT -4
I am new to the sport of bow hunting and so far I simply love it. I would like some opinions on the arrows I should be using. I was told to go with the mechanical broad head by the bow shop because they said I could practice shooting the bow with a field tip and the mechanical tip would fly the same as the field tip. I have received mixed opinions since and would like some more. Thanks
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Post by skwirl on Feb 10, 2008 16:15:16 GMT -4
We have some great people on this site who can give you all the info you will ever need But me personally I prefer mechanicals they fly just like my field tips and kill deer. What more could you ask for?
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Post by bfisher on Feb 10, 2008 17:48:16 GMT -4
Your shop may or may not be giving you the best advice. Before I g off I'd need to know what your bow's draw weight i, draw length is. What arrow will you be shooting?
It's just not wise to give advice out of the blue. Mechanical heads do not penetrate as well as good flying fixed heads, all things being equal. This is because it takes a certain amount of the arrow's energy to flip open (deploy) the blades on most mechanicals. There are just a lot of variables.
It's true that mecahnicals' flight more closely matches that of field points, but good arrow flight is required to get the best benefits and petration of any broadhead, regardless of whether fixed or mechanical. And this "good" arrow flight is a results of proper bow/arrow tuning.
Although it's sometimes more tedious to get good flight with fixed heads it's just good practice learning what is involved in tuning a bow/arrow combination to achieve good results. Something that almost any responsible archer can and should learn over time.
Think of it this way (using extremes). Assue you shoot an arrow at a target. The arrow has very bad flight characteristics and hits the target sideways. How much penetration would you expect from that arrow? Get my point? And what type of head on the front of the arrow would make no difference. What you should strive for in tuning is getting the arrow tofly as straight as possible, getting all it's momentum directly behind the point.
Now that I've gone all through this I have another suggestion. Being new to the sport you need to forget about broadheads for now. There are many months before hunting season gets here and you probably have lots to learn about shooting form and lots of other things before season gets here. Use it to your best advantage by learning how to better your form and tuning and fine tuning capabilities. Whatever broadheads you choose is something that you don't need to be concerned about until at least August.
I would also suggest finding an archery club in your area and join it. Often you'll meet people who can help you with the things I've mentioned---free, I might add. Hand's on help is always better than not seeing the shooter. You get to make new friends with similar interest. You expand your interests in archery, finding out that it involves a lot more than just hunting. 3D is a good example. It's fun, too.
Wish you luck and let us know how you make out.
Barry
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Post by mrlongbeard on Feb 10, 2008 20:00:42 GMT -4
very well said barry never was a big fan of mechanicals. some people love them myself i perfer fixed blades. my current choice is the g5 montec. but like you said the mechanicals use up some of the energy when they open. but they will kill deer.
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Post by hilbre on Feb 11, 2008 0:04:55 GMT -4
A perfectly tuned bow is the most important factor on game. That being said on a perfectly tuned bow, the mech vs fixed debate quickly fades in current times. I would not have said this 10yrs ago. But these days, I find poorly designed heads on both sides of the spectrum....as well as excellent heads on both sides. Shooting at some of the speeds we are today, there are some fixed heads that although built and manufactured well...just don't fly as well as I would like. We have a couple of options in this case. The trend now is to shoot some of the short blade-angle heads with a nominal 1" cutting diameter in order to get better flight. Or some go with a solid mech head that flies well, but opens to 1 1/4" or 1 1/2' cutting diamter. In todays bows tossing 60foot pounds of energy for deer, I doubt the energy lost opening a mech head is significant. So you are left with a choice. The expected durability of a small diameter fixed head....or the possible "mechanical" isues of a mech head, but with a larger cutting diameter. Take your pick:^)
I myself am still shooting larger fixed heads. But each jump in performance makes it tougher, and less forgiving. I won't go to the little fixed heads popular now. But I am not sold completely on mech heads either. We shall see this season:^)
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Post by firefightnlife on Feb 11, 2008 9:16:16 GMT -4
i really like rage mechanicals, they fly like a field tip.
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Post by cmreed on Feb 11, 2008 10:05:45 GMT -4
Well said bfisher! The biggest thing with heads is a good tuned bow the right arrow spine and the right vains or feathers. If you have any doubt at all about vaines use the blazzer vaines. They a stiff small vain but they are built for the use on broadheads. I myself used fixed and mech. and I now am back to fixed and will never shoot anouther mech.. It doesn't matter how fast your shooting you will always loose energy with a mech.. As far as cutting diamiter there is no problem with the diamator of the new smaller blades either. Think of it this way take a peice of deer hide and stretch it tight over a bucket and take a small fixed blade and push it threw, your hole will be substachually lager than what the diameter of the blades are. This is also true with mech. but see how much harder it is to push the mech. threw.
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Post by firefightnlife on Feb 11, 2008 12:37:31 GMT -4
not positive maybe i'll have to try but i think the rage would match up pretty well, they slide back into position, instead of flip back.
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Post by hilbre on Feb 11, 2008 19:09:13 GMT -4
Well....believe me, I'm not pro-mech by any stretch. But to say the cutting diameter of the smaller heads don't make a difference? You're right....the entry and exit hole will always be larger than the BH itself. But only on the surface due to the elasticity of the skin & tension of the tissue. But where it matters is as it passes through the animal. When it's doing the cutting. And I don't like what's happening with fixed heads in order to make them fly better.
For instance....I have hunted over the years with Thunderhead BH's. The 125's, 100's and 85gr heads. There "IS" a difference on game between the 85gr heads and the 100 & 125gr heads. And the little heads being sold these days are even smaller than the TH-85's.
The ease of penetration is debateable as well when the energy levels are above minimums. Take a hammer and nail for example. Place the nail in the board....and then take the hammer and "place" it on the head. Push down as hard as you can....and see how far you "push" the nail into the wood. Now use the hammer and give the nail a smack. Straight into the wood. Just like when "pushing" something through hide....it's not really an applicable comparison.
I realize this is an issue that's been debgated to death though:^) Probably won't end here neither:^) I guess where I am lately though, is that I am no longer looking at things as just fixed-&-mech. I'm seeing too many mech BH's outperform some of the very popular fixed heads out there to stay in the fixed-only camp.
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Post by mrlongbeard on Feb 11, 2008 22:03:23 GMT -4
have always said speed is over rated. it's speed that causes problem with broadhead flight and tuning. if the bow shoots at speeds around 280 and is tuned to the max large broadheads will work fine. but at speeds above this and with a bow just a little out of tune the mechanical is the choice.[not everybody takes the time to tune the bow just right]. the energy level is what bfisher was asking about, there should be a minimum level
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Post by bfisher on Feb 11, 2008 22:16:56 GMT -4
Hilbre,
I have to agree with you on some of what you said. Especially the last part, about being flexiable, if I may use the term.
I do have to be honest and say that I have been rather hard headed about staying with fixed heads for my own use. I do have my personal reasons though, mainly that I do not shoot heavy weight or heavy arrows so KE levels are not what I would deem enough to ethically shoot mechanicals. I'm not able to shoot high weight any more and don't wish to.
I would say that if I were to shoot a mechanical it would have to be one like the Rage or Tekan, with rear deploying blades.
Another reason I stay with fixed heads is that they are paid for and I don't plan on spending any more money on broadheads for the remainder of my hunting career. I change equipment every year and am constantly tuning and retuning and just love the challenge of getting fixed heads to fly right and with my target points. In some cases I even get them to fly without fletching out to 30 yards. Now that is nitpicking.
Hey, you keep coming back. I like a good debate, or discussion as it may be.
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Post by jeffpahunter on Feb 11, 2008 23:43:15 GMT -4
My vote is with bfisher as well.
I'll agree that there are some mechanical heads that IMO due to design, construction and function I would accept before others but I still am not willing to lose the KE that a mechanical heads take to deploy the blades or risk having a failure of a mechanical object that COULD occur with any shot.
I have not found a bow yet that could not be tuned to have GOOD QUALITY, vented bladed, fixed broad-heads hit with field points and in most cases they will fly as accurately or more so than field points.
One of my bows is capable of shooting 320 fps + and I can screw on at least 3 different fixed blade heads that fly like darts out to 50 yds or more.
Tuning is the first priority regardless of what style head one chooses to use.
Just my .02.
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Post by jeffpahunter on Feb 13, 2008 16:00:09 GMT -4
One area where I DO like to use mechanical heads is for Turkey hunting,.....but the requirements or expectations here are much different than Deer hunting.
With a Turkey I don't want the arrow to pass through. I want it to stay in the bird to transmit all of it's KE and shock to the birds system to limit his ability to fly and/or run. In fact dull mechanicals work even better and I go as far as placing a large washer behind the head to act as a "stopper".
Many times a Turkey hit with a razor sharp broad-head will still find a way to get air borne and once he does he'll lock his wings and be gone. You need a head that will stop quickly and much like a bullet transmit the maximum amount of shock that it can to the birds nervous system.
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Post by firefightnlife on Feb 13, 2008 16:15:18 GMT -4
i never thought of that, thats a great idea
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Post by hilbre on Feb 13, 2008 17:19:03 GMT -4
I agree wholeheartedly on the turkey side of the house.
I was a staunch supporter of the fixed only camp. However, over the past 5 years I have witnessed some excellent performance of a number of mech heads on deer. Over the past 5 years I have yet to witness any lack of penetration...nor failure to open of several different lines of mechs.
SO.....after 34 bow seasons with nothing but fixed heads....I will be chasing them with Sidewinders this coming season:^) Hopefully, I'll have some positive results from my personal testing come this time next year:^)
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